Having lived through a number of years of dealing with 'city hunters' where I grew up it can be difficult, since many didn't have the woodsmens skills they needed.  But, the number of hunting accidents have consistently declined over the last 30+ years, city hunter or otherwise, so I don't think it wise to rush to too many conclusions over one accident.  What happened to that toddler was very sad indeed...sounds like the hunter was either hunting way too close to a house or those parents made some very unwise choices on where they allowed their children to play during hunting season.

And, like it or not, with the wave of urbanization sweeping the country due to our declining economy tomorrow's hunters will increasingly come from urban areas (unfortunately we live in an urban area now too).  As dads we've got to do all we can to make sure our sons are trained in solid hunting skills and as buddies we've got to do all we can to help teach those who don't know them as well.

As Benjamin Franklin once said "either we all hang together or we will indeed all hang separately".  As hunters we've got to try help one another out.  If we don't, hunting will suffer tremendously.

I grew up 15 miles from a small town and had the run of all the country side around where we lived.  Dad worked in a small refinery out in west Texas and the Ranchers in the area let us hunt and fish where ever we wanted to.  There were about 10 or 12 of us guys from 10 to 15YO that roamed the area.  To my knowledge none of us ever shot a road sign, windmill, or any other pieces of equipment or destroyed anything that belonged to the land owners.  It seems that when  there was a mess left at one of the fishing holes, or signs or windmills shot up it was the folks from town that did the messing and shooting.  I now have a neighbor that lives about three miles from town (same small town) he has a small pond behind his house and he said he has people all the time just drive by his house and go down to the pond and start fishing.  It seems they just don't get it that it is private property.  He said they just didn't understand about asking permission.  Some are just rude and don't care but others are just ignorant of certain etiquite.  I have hunted all my life and often run across guys that just don't have a sense of fair chase or hunting ethics.  I took the Hunter Safety course way back in 1980 and it was a fairly decent course back then and I would assume that it has improved a great deal since then.  I noticed that the accident rate has gone down dramatically since the HSC was started so that should be some proof that it is working at least a little.  Is that the answer, mandatory hunter safety / law / ethics.  The only problem with that is a reduced number of hunters in the field and that really hurts us all.  I also really don't like the idea of more government controlling our hunting, etc.  So what to do??

I have to agree that a lot of folks are not longer "from the soil" so to speak.  The idea of private land, taking care of other people's property, and the right of the land owner is strange to them.

What I fear most is that this type of person can also grow up to become a game warden or worse, someone who sets policy for TPWD.  Someone who may have been on a deer lease or two but they really are not from the country. 

I know a lot of "city hunters" who are among the most careful, dedicated hunters I know.  They contribute a lot to hunting as a sport and to the legacy of passing it down to the next generation.  But, in a room full of hunters I can point out the country folk from the ones from the city in a glance.

Respect the soil.  Respect the man who owns it.  Respect the animals and fish in you are there for. 

The Hunt goes on forever, the season never ends. http://www.hossfly.com 979 777 1725

I think the lack of respect for private ownership goes far beyond a individual's ownership of hunting land and relflects a larger problem...look at the level of vandalism against homes, buildings, railroad cars, vehicles, gravestones, and all that.  There can be several things that drive that beyond a misplaced creative ability: envy, anger, greed, etc.

And, I certainly agree that there are many excellent city hunters out there.  How that will continue past a couple of generations looks up in the air to me.  Most of the good city hunters I know have either lived in the country or had a high level of access to it during their formative years.  Maybe if they can get their children out they too will carry on a sufficient level of understanding.  That's our hope anyway.

But the point Ryan made about TPWD is well-founded.  Someone who can't balance the needs of both hunters and landowners, along with a real understanding of wild habitat outside of what they learned in a book is a rapidly declining commodity.  Plus, you're now starting to see solid evidence of an 'animal rights' mentality springing-up at TWPD.  Get their magazine sometime...its unmistakable.  And, I don't know a single animals rights activist that grew-up in the country.  Now some folks that grew up that way don't hunt, and that's fine.  Hunting's not for everybody.  But the difference between a non-hunter and an animal rights activist is one prefers not to hunt while the other will adamantly try to take the right to hunt right away from you.

Buzzard,

1.  I do not take paying clients out there, sorry to burst your bubble.  I take a friend or two with me because loading dead hogs and deer by myself is a lot of work.  One is a College Station Police Officer, the other is an accountant and outdoor writer.  My guiding takes place primarily in Brown County, Kerr County and West TX.  There isn't enough room, or deer, out there to take paying hunters.

2.  I've done more to help work that place from building fence, shredding, digging ditches so the horses can get water, replacing gates, replacing the roof on the shed, cutting brush off of the fences, painting, cleaing and other general maintenance, running the tractor, mower, ditch witch,  etc in the last 10 years than anybody else.  I also help supervise Big Event out there every year when we have a day of free labor.  I also have picked up trash left by those he lets come camp and by some who keep horses there and all the other folks he lets enjoy his place that seem to forget to pick up after themselves.  I've also pulled out people who were stuck in the mud and helped with horse issues when he had an issue with a particular owner. 

I consider it an honor to help the landowner in such a manner.  I would do it even if I didn't hunt out there.

3. 75% + of the meat killed out there goes to the land owner.  His deep freeze came from myself and a friend who gave it to him.

4.  When the land owner could hunt, we hunted together, the horses were both in the upper and lower pasture.  I hunted out of his horse trailer and golf cart with him many times.

Your Air Force/Cold War service is appreciated.  However, the behavior of your group was juvenile.  Driving around a pasture honking and walking down the road during deer season was irresponisble on your part.  I got out of the blind the second I knew you were there.  I park behind the shed in the lower pasture so as NOT to spook the animals.  I'm not "hiding" my truck.

The Hunt goes on forever, the season never ends. http://www.hossfly.com 979 777 1725

ryan,

you are in the right here.  i live in an area where horse ownes, not cattlemen now use most of the land.  98% of these city horse owners are idiots(to use a nice word).  they do not care about anything or anyone except themselves.   do not apologize for anything.  we must fight these city mentality moving into the country.  otherwise, soon we will lose our rights to use the land.  if you want stories of horse owners tryillng to interrupt legal hunts i can go on forever.

Tufffish,

Thank you very much.  It's really part of a bigger problem in a lot of areas. 

It appears we have a hard core internet warrior amongst us now.....

The Hunt goes on forever, the season never ends. http://www.hossfly.com 979 777 1725

Rusty,

I sincerely doubt that Ryan did anything worthy of the content of your posts.  And, running around this board and slinging nastygrams to defame someone's character does nothing but aggrivate other folks that have nothing to do with your problem.

But, for my part your apology is accepted. 

rusty your a piece of $#!!