The 13 inch measurement is measured at the WIDEST point on the inside spread of the main beams.

I agree with Matt

The biologist I talked with stated that the 13" inside spread on the main beams was going state wide on Sept 1, 2009.  He stated that too many smaller bucks were being harvested in the WMA's.

He stated that it wasn't a "for sure" yet, but from the meeting he had attended, it was headed in that direction and would probably become law starting with the 2009-2010 season.

Steve Spence
Cell: 832-435-0706
Independent AMSOIL Dealer - T-1 Certified
AMSOIL - The "Once A Year" Oil Change
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amsoil1@charter.net

Can't see it for 09-10, no public comment or anything else about 13" rule going statewide....

News Release
Media Contact: Steve Lightfoot, 512-389-4701, steve.lightfoot@tpwd.state.tx.us

March 26, 2009

Commission Adopts Sweeping Changes to Deer Regulations

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20090326d

Steve Spence
Cell: 832-435-0706

The press release states sweeping changes but your post suggested that the 13" rule would go into effect Statewide this Fall (09).  That is not going to happen and was not proposed.

Murphy, after digesting the information, I believe when Rusty, the biologist, told me the 13" rule was going state wide, he meant the rule would be adopted in all of the WMA's managed by the U.S.F.S.

My initial thought was state wide as in the whole state, the same as your initial thoughts.

I understand (now) that statewide may have different meanings to different people depending on the perspective.

My apologies for not asking Rusty what he meant by "state wide".

Steve Spence
Cell: 832-435-0706
Independent AMSOIL Dealer - T-1 Certified
AMSOIL - The "Once A Year" Oil Change
35 Years of GM Parts Experience
http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1690163
amsoil1@charter.net

Steve, no problems, hope you have a great season!

Howdy! One thing for sure is that you will have to study the deer for awhile before shooting. Also, a buck that only grows an antler on one side will never be a legal buck once the antler branches since this buck meets none of the criteria.  There will probably be more does and unbranched antlered bucks along with hogs taken on most WMA's.  Always, Gene

Here's another dilema.  Below is a pic from a scope ad.  The buck is obviously mature.  But, if you go by the TP&W rule of thumb about the spread being wider than the alert ears, this buck would fall short.

The ad to which you refer is in the August 2009 American Hunter magazine.  I'm sure it's in other magazines as well.

The lower left corner of the ad explains the "RACK BRACKET SYSTEM".  Using the bracket system vertical hash marks, it explains that the vertical marks are 17" apart which is the average on a whitetail deer.

By using a compass (the one that is used to draw a circle) and setting it to the width of the vertical hash marks, the distance matches almost exactly with the width of the deer's ear tips.

I navigated to Bushnell's web site: http://www.bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_elite3200_32-3940b.cfm and had a look at the technical specifications of the scope.

At 100 yards, the field of view is 11.5 feet.  The deer in the scope takes up approximately 2/3 of the FOV and therefore is about 7.67 feet from end to end.  Those dimensions would equate to a large mature whitetail and therefore tend to confirm that the deer is shown on the 9X power of the scope.

Using the above data and moving the vertical hash marks to the ears, it can be shown that the deer does meet or exceed the 13" minimum set by the TPWD and is a "shooter".

I suppose, like everything else, the data is relative to the deer's size.  The deer shown in the scope is obviously a mature buck - by his very thick neck - and is probably at least 5.5 years old.  It the Outdoor Annual, I believe the example is a much younger buck from the neck being shown much thinner than the buck in the scope's FOV.

Comments concerning my calculations are welcome.  If you have a differing opinion, let me hear it.

Steve Spence
Cell: 832-435-0706 

Calculations or not .......If that deer or one very similar to that one walks out in front of me, inside the ears or not, I will be ground checking him!!!!

Here's another example of what I think you guys are talking about.  The post for this clip read:

"Video of mature whitetail buck taken near town of Lodi in northeastern Texas. Video for discussion purpose. This buck is not legal in Marion county and several Texas counties due to inside spread of rack not being 13 inches wide. "

I'm not sure how mature he is (guessing 4.5 but hard to tell), but it illustrates one of the problems with the 13" rule.  If he were on a managed ranch he'd be toast.

Lodi is about 25 miles north of Marshall.

13 inches - the ears in the alert position (tips of the ears are pointed up)

the ears in the add are pointing out it is wider than 13 in. 

The clip of the above deer is a very common sight on my place in cass county for the past few years we have let dozens of these deer walk and felt very good about it early on. We expected to see many 14-18 inch deer by 2010 but the fact is we just saw the same amount or the less of the above size in 2010. We are very clear on my place about shooting this size and to date none have been shot. We also only shot 2 deer above this size in the same time frame and 3 times the amount of does. Measuring racks from 2000-2005 taken in Cass county I have saved many good looking deer in my rack pile all came to 11-12.5 and looked like the deer in the clip when shot. I like the ear rule but deer are walking that are close or on 13 inches I think a relief of 1-2 inches needs to be started. Warden Michael Serbanic,replacing Billy Dodd has sure made himself know at my camp and Im sure in many others why are we note seeing bigger deer. One note of the 10 or so cams out year round we see large velvit racks in day time hours in June, July and Aug then gone and move to 12 midnight to 4am thru the hunting season a few in the 20 inch spread. What can we do to to get a few days of day time look see on these big bucks ( 2-3 times a month we have a 3 day straight night pic on same bucks in same area then gone all this during hunting season) 60-80 hours per week per person 5 hunters spent in climbers using all precautions to eliminate sent and inward and outbound walk in smells and sound. Yes we moved climbers around a few times quietly 40-100 yds during this time. Many 4-6 points and a few 8 points all at or under ear spreads mostly at ear spread wich means a NO SHOT. Help. 

The velvit deer above is an example of the many summer pics we get and never see during hunting months. When I talk about the above deer in above response I am talking about the short film above. The above velvit deer would be a shooter come Oct and Nov. Thank you.

Here are two typical night pics of shooting bucks and have been seen for over 2 years at night same place a few times a year during the hunting season.

oops sorry another night buck.