I did my part!

GO CLIMB A TREE, TIM

So are y'all sayin to speak out for it or against it? Cause I'm all for it. I'm thinking that this was way past due.

Crossbows only for the handicapped.

Keep yer eyes peeled!

Crossbows only for the handicapped.

That is total BS. With hunter numbers declining annually, everything possible needs to be done to attract as many new hunters into the sport of hunting as possible.

Besides what difference does it make whether a person is using a bow or a crossbow if they are hunting a private deer lease?

Also, how much difference is there between a crossbow and a compound equipped with a hold open device?

How about if someone introduces some proposed legislation to limit archer season to traditional longbows and recurves and out law compounds?

I read elsewhere on the site about the youth season that the archery buffs were whining about. Several people accused them of just not wanting to share their sacred time of year with anyone else. So the excuse they came up with was that having guns going off during bow season would make the deer too cautious and skittish. Well what's your excuse now? A crossbow isn't going to be any louder than your bows. It all goes back to what Mr. Hardy Jackson said about elitism amongst archers. Get over yourselves gentlemen. Your delusions of grandeur are a detriment to the hunting society, and will only serve to do more harm than good for all hunters.

Cross bows during general season only. It is a shoulder mount weapon and some have scopes. This weapon is pre-cocked and ready. The act of drawing a bow undecticted is archery.

As far as youth season during archery season. That is a definite Yes for me.

Here goes the BS Flag up again.

It is already legal in Texas for Archers to use the hold open device on their compound bows, if that does not constitute  pre-cocked and ready, what does?

Also I have noticed that some Archers have scopes mounted on their bows, or is that different?

With the number of hunters declining and the number of people that are having to give up deer hunting because they can no longer afford leases, and the number of deer in the state increasing annually, legalizing the use of crossbows will help bring people back to the sport.

Additionally, it will allow more people to use the available Public Land in the state that does not allow any type of firearm hunting.

Cross bows need to be legalized for Archery Season and not just for handicapped hunters or youths.

RanchRat I stopped bow hunting five years ago when I left Kerrville and move to the desert west of Langtry. I read your commit about hold open devices and then went to my game book. You are correct. With that in mind I stand corrected. If you can legally hold open a bow with a device then there is no real difference between the two.

I don't see crossbows increasing the number of hunters much other than like you say, on public land.  With the large amount of high dollar game ranches and leases in our state. Hunting is becoming the sport of Kings again.

I do apologise if I offened you or anyone else with my comments or my stance on this issue.

I am not a bowhunter, in fact I hope to kill at least 1 javelina during March while doing my Guided hunts out in Pecos county, with a my old Herter's Fiberglass Recurve Bow and a Flint Tipped arrow.

It will be my first bow kill of anything other than a couple of carp.

I have however been involved in this discussio for 4 years now or so, and all of the arguements archers here in Texas about why crossbows should not be legalized, revolve around one thing, and that is archers having what amounts to exclusive use of Public Property.

Will legalizing crossbows for deer hunting by folks other than handicapped translate into increased license sales, maybe yes, maybe no.

But if it is a yes, and that increase is only 5% the first year, it just might reverse or at least slow down the annual decline in hunter numbers.

Also, over most areas of the state, deer numbers are increasing at a steady rate annually, and on the Public Lands allowing Archery Only, not enough deer are being taken out to keep the herd in balance on those areas, or prevet the numbers of animals on those properties from exceeding the carrying capacity of the range.

Add to all that, the fact that technological advancements in Modern Archery equipment has allowed or advanced the idea among archers to increase the range at which they will take shots.

I have heard several archers state openly, that they feel comfortable taking shots of 50 to 60 yards, if that is that is the only shot they have.

Yes, some one can pull a stunt with a crossbow and hit a target at 100 yards, but would the bolt have enough speed and energy to even penetrate a deer's hide at that range?

Ted Nugent has admitted in articles he has written that he will take a 70 yard shot at an animal if it is wounded, I tend to wonder how many shots he has tried at that range on unwounded animals.

This has been a sore spot in Texas for many years, other states allow the use of crossbows by non-handicapped individuals during their open archery seasons, the only group fighting it have been archers, the same group that has gotten the use of the Hold Open device permitted and the same folks that have gotten the let-off weight of compounds reduced.

Public Huting Land in Texas is in short supply, why should only one group have almost exclusive rights to that land.

No one is lobbyig for gun hunters to have access to most of those lands, simply because those lands are either not large enough or are surrounded by homes and Private Lands, where shootig even shotguns or muzzle loaders would be unsafe at best.

There are folks that would take up the crossbow, but at what a good quality crossbow costs, the number would not be that high.

Also, one thing I found out last year during a discussion on this issue, many of the folks against crossbow legalization have never shot one, and there fore have no working idea as to its effectiveness as a hunting tool.

I disagree, like was said before, the act of drawing a bow undecticted is archery, the crossbow totally eliminates this giving the hunter even more advantage. Yes draw locks are legal, but I believe those too should be outlawed in october. Bringing crossbows to october will NOT increased hunter numbers. You think someones going to go out an buy a $500 crossbow plus accessories to hunt just one month, ain't gonna happen.  The last thing we need is more people running around on already crowded public land, with locked and loaded weapons. 

From what I have seen, Public Land is not all that crowded, and just like "Bow Hunters" crossbow hunters can use their crossbow during general season on those Public Lands, just like "Bow Hunters" do.

Your statement about just using it in OCTOBER is BS, I know many archers that hunt both archery season and General Season with Bow Only.

No law states that a bow can not be used during the General Deer Season in Texas and you know that.

Your arguement is as full of holes as a swiss cheese, you and many other Archers have an elitist attitude, and want to keep the present discrimanatory system toward other hunters in place on the various Public lands around the state.

That is BS.

Have you ever shot or handled a cross bow?

If you do not believe that it will attract new hunters or older hunters back into the sport, then why are you so worried about it?

I understand that the cross bow is a shoulder mount weapon, thus making aiming easier. Also that ranges are increased in relation to that of a compound bow.

However, it is a primitive weapon that is close to 2300 years old. It is still propelled the same was as a compound bow.

I would go out tomorrow and buy a 500 dollar compound bow if I was allowed to use it instead of using my compound bow. I would be hunting with a weapon that is more likely to penetrate and kill the animal rather than wounding it.

I would not be hunting on public land AT all. I hunt exclusively of privately owned land. So I would not be affected by a greater number of hunters.

I am all about a 2 week compound bow only season. Followed be a 2 week season that would include all bows. Followed by the open weapon season.

That way everyone gets a little of what they want.

Fact is the only people that are pushing this are the ones who gain to make a profit if crossbows are allowed in october, that would be the crossbow manufacturers and possibly some game ranches that aren't already under MLD. They have done polls through the lonestar bowhunters association, and 95% of texas bowhunters do not want to see crossbows legalized in october except for those with physical disablility. I say leave the rules alone, and don't try to fix something thats not broke.

Which goes along precisely with what I said earlier. Bowhunters don't want anymore competition, in October. Which is why most of them are against both the crossbow and the youth hunts. You feel you deserve some special privaledges because you hunt with a bow.

Youth are more that welcome to hunt in archery season with a bow, after all the minimum draw weight was abolished last year so there is no excuse.  Bowhunters are the ones who petitioned for the october archery only deer season, and we pay for it annually with the archery stamp, now everyone seems to want a piece of the pie. You don't see bowhunters trying to encroach on gun hunters and try to take away their season. It is a fact once the guns start blasting away the deer become extrememly skittish and it becomes next to impossible to take a deer with a bow. You need to remember bowhunters were not the ones to cast the first stone in these issues, like I said before leave the rules alone. The majority of texas hunters are happy with the way the seasons currently fall.

Quote...."It is a fact once the guns start blasting away the deer become extrememly skittish and it becomes next to impossible to take a deer with a bow."

So again I ask, what does that have to do with crossbows?

I have also been paying for archery season for 30 years on my super combo. Now if they make crossbows legal during bow season I will get to cash in on my investment too. Only a matter of time. If it doesn't pass this year it will sooner or later. Then all of you bow hunters will have a reason to walk around with your nose in the air, you'll be having to scan the trees for the rest of us.

[quote]So again I ask, what does that have to do with crossbows?[quote]

You brought up the youth hunt issue, and I addressed it, your words exactly and I quote "Bowhunters don't want anymore competition, in October. Which is why most of them are against both the crossbow and the youth hunts. You feel you deserve some special privaledges because you hunt with a bow."

Waco Oso, you ain't got a clue man.

You won't answer a direct question, Have You Ever Shot Or Even Handled A Crossbow.

I don't even bowhunt and I ain't got anything to gain by seeing crossbows legalized.

I am just really tired of the elitist attitude of archers.

No one is trying to take"Your Season" from you, some folks would just like to see other people take advantage of PUBLIC LAND, besides a select few.

How about you put this in your pipe and smoke it a while, you archers make room for folks to use a crossbow or maybe those folks you wat to keep out can ban together and get all hunting on that Public Land shut down, How Would You Like That???? 

You are the one who doesn't have a clue my friend, you aren't even familiar with recent technological advancements in crossbow equipment, I have shot a crossbow FREQUENTLY, my dad owns one of these. The thing shoots a bolt at 400+ feet per second and is bulls eye accurate to 60 yards, I have no doubt someone who practiced with it could take out at deer at 100 yards.

 If we allow these then why not these, and then what next, muzzleloaders in october.

"Airrow’s new rimfire archery barrel installed on the Ruger 77/22."

My point is we have to draw the line somewhere to preserve archery only season, and I think archery is defined as being HAND DRAW.

I really hate to get into this fracus, but there is a lot being said both true and untrue. 

First the crossbow issue is not being brought by an immense number of crossbow users.  It is rather being done by the manufacturers.  They could not do in Parks and Wildlife what they wanted so they are now moving through the legislature.  Find out the numbers of crossbow hunters backing or pushing this and you will see it is true.  That may not change the argument but rather add perspective.   

It is not a resource issue.  Crossbow users are not going to suddenly kill a lot more deer.  It isn't necessary to manage the resource.  There is not a problem in that regard.  The license only allows so many deer to be killed.  The crossbow is being currently used in the general season without any great impact on the resource.  The desire to open up the archery season therefore isn't to kill more deer or increase hunter numbers.  It is rather for "hunter opportunity".  In no state has hunter numbers seen an appreciable increase.  The opening of the archery only season just moved one hunter group to another season.  Basically gun hunters on a whim to try it,went down and bought a crossbow.  Just one more thing that may not change the argument but add a new perspective. 

The crossbow proponents say it is like the current compound bow, saying the draw loc is legal.  Why not the crossbow?  Bowhunters DID NOT legalize the draw loc.  Parks and Wildlife did. When re writing archery regulations, they left out, supposedly inadvertantly, the statement precluding the draw loc in its re write and the inventor pressed them, once a season had gone by, to leave it that way.  The handicapp issue was the logic.  It was in and Parks and Wildlife left it, to the complaint of the LSBA.  I was there when it happened.  The LSBA as an organization did not want the draw loc legalized.

Crossbows are happening in every state.  Manufacturers are needing revenue.  This is not about what is good for hunting or not good for hunting.  We can argue till the cows come home.   This is about money.  Parks and Wildlife see it as an equipment issue and don't really have a dog in the hunt.  There issue is resource and it is not a resource issue either. 

Before assuming accurate that deer are increasing and therefore becoming a resource issue, ask Parks and Wildlife for the federally funded study called "Job 1".  It is free if you ask for it.  It tells deer populations per county, harvest per county, hunter number and hours per county and actual numbers regarding harvest data per county. 

The crossbow has become an issue of emotions instead of really seeking facts.  If we all just take a deep breath and put the emotions aside we could probably come to some agreement. 

Forgive me, for I don't intend to sound like a know it all.  I don't, and am not.  But since 1980 or so I have been dealing with this in organized bowhunting. 

OK, now pile on.

Louie  

I am a cross bow hunter. I use the Excalibur Exomax.

It is a recurve style xbow and I use a fiber optic peep sight. It weighs about 9 pounds, but after lugging it around for 8 hours hunting rugged territory it feels more like 50.

Yes you are walking around with a cocked weapon on safety. But, proper handeling means you do not have a arrow in it ready to go.

You do not put that in until you are ready to go. Plus you still have to pull it up to your shoulder. I have hunted with it for 2 years now and I still have not taken anything with it. I have had chances but things have just not been right.

The xbow really offers no real advantage.

The biggest disappointment of my xbow is that the only way to de-cock it is to fire it. I have sacrificed 3 arrows in 2 years, so far that is $18 blown.

My total rig cost me $900: That includes my xbow, my arrows, broad heads, wax, and quiver.

But we all know that archery hunting is expensive no matter what you choose to shoot.

"If we allow these [crossbows] then why not these [rimfire archery barrels], and then what next, muzzleloaders in october."

All great ideas. I'm all for it.

If its an arrow its archery... if its a bullet its a gun. Anyone confused?

"968" passes House with overwhelming support. Now gone to Senate for consideration.

waco oso, I may not have a clue, but I don't think you have a lot of them either.

From what has been posted here on the subject, Louie Adams has hit the nail on the head on the whole issue.

My point remains however, that for hunting to survive in Texas or anywhere else, we need to be getting more hunters into the woods and buying licenses.

For what I consider a good explanation of the whole controversy, in the April issue of Texas Fish and Game Magazine, on page 10, Don Zaidle presents it fairly well. JMO.

"They could not do in Parks and Wildlife what they wanted so they are now moving through the legislature."

You are clearly ignorant of the law and TPWD procedures.

TPWD can do only what the law says it can do. It was *already a matter of law* that crossbows could not be used in archery season, ergo TPWD could not do anything to allow them even if it wanted to. It *required* action by the legislature to make the change.

The Governor signed HB968 on Saturday May 23, 2009.

"We should all be looking for productive and innovative ways to get more hunters into the field, not restricting access to the great outdoors and its plentiful bounty. The crossbow bill is just such an instrument and I am proud to have affixed my signature to another tool which will promote more Texans to get out and enjoy the Spirit of the Wild!"
Governor Rick Perry

Hunt Hard. Fish Smart. Explore Texas.

The following email was sent to me by Wendy White to give everyone another perspective of the HB 968.

It passed the Senate yesterday with a 31-1 vote. We spoke before the senate committee the week before and it passed with a 4-1 vote and the 1 was someone that came in at the last and replaced another committee member. LSBA lobbied those senators hard too.

Only 3 persons showed on the opposition and one chose not to speak. The two who did speak were the current president of the LSBA, and the past president.

Their testimony was based off of non facts or truths so they weren't taken seriously. Comment pertained to crossbows shooting game at 100 yards, which is not the truth. Then the other part of the testimony pertained to the PSE Tac-15 which isn't even on the market. It's a bastard weapon which consists of an AR-15 lower end, and so far, in the Crossbow community here in the USA, there isn't any interest in it. There is some interest in Italy, but would have to get a permit since it has the AR-15 lower end.

The LSBA put out a call to arms at 9AM Friday morning before the Monday 3PM hearing. There were over 2,000 views to the thread, but alot of the membership didn't disagree with allowing crossbows into archery season, so no masses of protestors showed up at the Capitol. It was Butch and myself, two reps from Barnett Crossbows and one rep from the American Crossbow Federation, then Speaker of the House Gibb showed up to testify FOR.

Also, my good friend Keith Warren and daughter Mattie testified FOR and she did a great job following in brother Colton's footsteps offering testimony describing what it would mean to her and her hunting girl friends to be able and hunt during Archery season.

I'll attach my rough draft of my own testimony. I also had videos to show as proof you hand draw and shoot game while game is in the shooting zone.

It's BS about that moment of truth thing as I disproved it publically a few years ago. Of course, there are some that will hate me, but there will be much more that will thank me for getting them the opportunity to use their choice of archery equipment during archery season where it belongs.

That's what it's all about~ Freedom of choice and opportunity for all, not just a few. Getting hunting families opportunity to hunt together without rifles firing off around them. Now, dad, mom, grandpa, brothers and sisters can hunt quietly together in mild weather, and allow us to recruit more hunters to the outdoors. We need more hunters to carry on the family tradition of hunting with the current declining numbers. TPWD needs more funding as well for conservation projects.

Wendy White

The following is a draft of my testimony...

Good Afternoon and thank you for today. I have been waiting many years for this day. Let me introduce myself. I am Wendy White. I am an avid archer who competes using a crossbow and a vertical bow. I am also a hunting and Bow fishing guide who has guided and recruited many who would otherwise, never have the opportunity or interest in our tradition of hunting. My partner and myself are Butch and Wendys Hunting Adventures. We work with the SCI Dessert Chapter and the PVA to provide a hunting opportuity for those who need special attention and effort to be able and enjoy the outdoors in wheel chairs, our disabled veterans, and also, other special needs persons and children who are first time hunters that most will not work with in the hunting community. We also volunteer to work with TPWD each year at the Texas EXPO to introduce the general public to outdoors activities and we run and educate those by teaching them safety and shooting at the crossbow range. We work with the TPWD Hunters Education dept.

TPWD puts this event on each year, to help promote and recruite outdoors activities including our hunting and shooting heritage.

ARCHERY- the practice of using a bow or crossbow to shoot arrows. as defined in the dictionary of wikipedia and Merriam Webster.

BOW- A bow is not a bow without limbs. They bend with the draw and store energy.

PROJECTILE or ARROW- The projectile or arrow for ALL the various archery equipment consists of: a shaft, vanes or feathers, a nock, and a tip. Arrows are all propelled using the same exact energy source.

So, to compare the variety of archery equipment, all consists of limbs, with a string, Both Crossbow and Compound bow utilize a trigger, they all send a projectile using stored energy, under these collected definitions. The conclusion is that a Long Bow, A Recurve Bow, a Compound Bow and a Crossbow are all archery equipment. They all consists of limbs which store energy, they all have a string, and they all shoot a projectile called an arrow, the all have the same trajectory distance. In other words, the shot distance is the same. While hunting, the average shot distance on game is 20-30 yards for all the various bows. Hence, there is no advantage using a compound bow or a crossbow in a hunting situation.

Crossbows belong in Archery season as they are archery by all definitions and have been justified as such.

Crossbows are subject to the Federal Archery Excise Tax and are considered archery equipment by the IRS which in turn, contributes 10% of that total to the PITTMAN-ROBERTSON FUNDING PROGRAM collected from the archery industry.

TPWD considers Crossbows as archery equipment as determined by the language used. When Crossbows are recognized as archery equipment by the state of TEXAS legislation, TPWD will be able to bring additional income by classifiying it as such and sell an archery stamp to bring in yet more funds to the program for future efforts to recruite hunting being it's our family tradition in decline, conservation and other various efforts. Our wildlife dept. needs more funding at this time.

The most recent improvement in bow design is the compound bow. Compounds are popular for two important reasons. Where a recurve gets harder to pull as you draw it further back, the compound bow reaches peak weight at 1/2 way through the draw, then LETS OFF or gets easier to pull toward the end and has a reduced holding weight at full draw. For this reason, it can be held at full draw longer for steady aim. Also, because of the let off, the peak weight of the bow is not immediatley transferred to the arrow. Compound bows use or can legally use, triggers, stabilizers, bubble levels, drop away rests, peep sights and fiber optic pins, 80% let off at full draw, nocks and d-loops for ease of trigger use, and even a draw loc system that holds the string until released by a trigger.

This is not the same as for a long bow or a recurve bow which we call Traditional archery, but is the most popular amongst bow hunters utilizing the archery season. The compound bow is a whole new kind of weapon compared to theTraditional equipment.

In review, all bows have to be drawn. All bows use stored energy. All bows consist of limbs. All bows have a string. All bows send a projectile. All bows have a comparable trajectory. There is not one argument that would not allow, or reason to discriminate a crossbow to be legal for use during any archery season. It is ARCHERY EQUIPMENT by all definitions.

Please, do the right thing and pass HB968. The crossbow has allowed myself to promote and recruite hunters, and personally, it recruited myself into utilizing a vertical bow.

The reason most people do not pick up and use a vertical bow is ther are very intimidating and predominantly for right handed shooters only until the past few years where very few left handed bows are now on the market. The next problem is the various individuals draw lengths. You can't just pick up any bow and shoot it.

Then, the various draw weights. So, in my personal experience, the compound bow is a weapon predominently used by 20-40 something right handed males. I'm obviously female and I'm left handed. I am discriminated against in the world of vertical bows. I picked up a crossbow because it was ambidextrious, and allowed me to archery hunt. I love archery. I would love to not be discrininated against by my own state legislation and be able to hunt during our archery season and recuite others to participate as well and have the opportunity to bring the tradition of archery hunting back to our youth and our families instead of sitting at home or in deer camp having to wait for the 20 to 40 year old family members to come in and tell us women kids and aging hunters what they experienced in the field. Texas families need more opportunity to hunt together. If us mothers and grandmothers are hunting, you can bet the rest of the family , especially our youth, will be outdoors and not in the city, or in front of a TV or video game, or out in the streets getting into mischeif, and we can do it in mild weather without having rifles being shot all around us. We would have the same advantage then as other archery equipment users. Diversity always equals strength. It's why compound bows were allowed in archery season back in the late 70's and early 1980's while traditional archery shooters fought that new compound bow with all of it's advantages being allowed during their season. In hindsight of that fight, it promoted archery hunting and did not devistate any deer herds to date. With passage of this bill, it would help to insure our future to keep archery hunting strong.

Again I ask all of you personally, to please work to pass this bill. As TPWD says, "Life is better outside". God Bless Texas.

Hunt Hard. Fish Smart. Explore Texas.