270 good choice for all around. Next would be a 308 or a 7MM-08 is a great easy toting gun with plenty of pop for what you are wanting. IMO of course...

Tom, several years ago, I purchased a Weatherby Synthetic Vanguard in .30-06.  For years, I've listened to other hunters tell me that my .30-30 was a 100 yard rifle and that I should get something more powerful and flatter shooting.

What you didn't disclose in your request for help was the distance that you would be hunting deer.

Hornady has developed a new cartridge for the .30-30 named LeverEvolution.  I'll let you read about it at: www.hornady.com.

The bottom line is this: for you stated purposes, a .30-30 coupled with the Hornady LeverEvolution ammunition will give you all the bang you need.

The LeverEvolution ammunition turns a .30-30 into a 300 yard rifle.  When zeroed in at 200 yards, the projectile drops 12.1 inches at the 300 yard interval

Find a good quality scope with a BDC (Bullet Drop Compensation) reticle.  Mount the BDC scope to the gun and get comfortable with it at the range.

I purchased my Marlin .30-30 brand new in 1978.  With the LeverEvolution ammunition, I will take the .30-30 every time over my Weatherby .30-06.  The Marlin weighs right at 6 pounds with sling and scope compared to the Weatherby at almost 9 pounds.  The Marlin has a 20 inch barrell while the Weatherby has a 24 inch barrell.

I find the Marlin is easier to carry and to mount for a shot and I have made successful 250 yards shots with it using the LeverEvolution ammunition.

I agree with Lamar that the .270 and .308 are both a flatter shooting cartridge when compared to the old .30-30 and if you'll regularly be making shots further than 300 yards, then the .30-30 isn not the cartridge you should use.

One of your specifications was that the cartridge be well established and reasonably priced.  The .30-30 certainly fits that criteria.

I'm very comfortable with my Marlin .30-30 using the LeverEvolution ammunition and use it almost exclusively when deer season opens.

The only reason for me to pick up the Weatherby .30-06 is when I know there is a reasonable possibility that a shot longer than 300 yards is likely to present itself.

Steve Spence
Cell: 832-435-0706

I don't plan to be shooting any further than 300 yards, so the .30-.30 would also be a possibility.  The Marlin 336 is also a reasonably priced rifle with the .30-.30 also being a well established and reasonably priced cartridge.

I guess with the right scope and a range finder (I don't have one(yet)), one could compesate properly for the drop at the 200 to 300 yards range.  The advantage of some of the other cartridges would be flatter shooting and thus more room for error in judging the range, assuming that the shot opportunity was too quick to double check the range.    More to think about.

I do appreciate the opinions and information.  Thanks!!

Tom

Bull Elk shot with Hornady's LeverEvolution in .30-30

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=513

Maine Moose shot with Hornady's LeverEvolution in .30-30

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=473

Disclaimer: I am not associated with Hornady in any way except an end user of their product.

Steve Spence
Cell: 832-435-0706
Independent AMSOIL Dealer - T-1 Certified
AMSOIL - The "Once A Year" Oil Change
35 Years of GM Parts Experience
http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1690163
amsoil1@charter.net

If you're not going to go past 300 yards I'd go with the .308.  Its got a great bullet selection, good power, and mild recoil.  Like Steve I bought a Weatherby Vanguard synthetic in.308 for my eldest son - they're very good rifles.  He loves his.  I'd have bought a Remington but at the time they didn't make a .308 that had a 24" stainless barrel.

A 7mm-08 (a .308 necked down to 7mm) is another great rifle with mild recoil, good power, and good range.  Almost perfect for whitetails and muleys.  My one knock against it is that there aren't a lot of bullet selections in factory loads.

The .270 is OK, but if you're going to go that route I'd go with a 7mm Remington Magnum - its got everything the .270 has but has a little more power and is a little flatter shootng.  A lot of people talk about recoil with this round but to me there isn't as much difference (I've shot both and own a 7mm).

One thing to remember when you buy a rifle - every one I've owned has a certain load and bullet weight/design it likes above others, and sometimes the preference can be substantial.  Unless you want to get into reloading the more available factory loads the better for finding the one your rifle likes best.  That's why I'd go with the .308.

Lamar, in case you don't know, the Weatherby Vanguard line of rifles are made by Howa in Japan.  Howa Machinery Co. manufactured all of the weapons used by the Japanese during WWII.

Some of the Vanguards will shoot sub MOA groups and Weatherby test fires each one to determine which ones do.  Then, Weatherby charges a premium price for the ones that will shoot sub MOA groups.

It makes me wonder just what it costs to manufacture a rifle if Weatherby can sell the Vanguard line for $399.00.

Steve Spence
Cell: 832-435-0706
Independent AMSOIL Dealer - T-1 Certified
AMSOIL - The "Once A Year" Oil Change
35 Years of GM Parts Experience
http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1690163
amsoil1@charter.net

Except for the Hogue Overmold stock, this rifle looks just like the Weatherby:

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/howa_hogue.html

30-06 is perhaps the most versatile cartridge made. There are more factory cartridge choices in 30-06 than any other. You can find a load for everything from medium-sized varmints up to elk. And the ammo is available everywhere.

Unless you plan on shooting a featherweight rifle, 30-06 recoil is not significant. Most new rifles have nice, thick pads that dissipate recoil effectively.

The .270 is a necked down 30-06. Both are capable of 300 yard shooting. Both have similar recoil. However, it is difficult to find .270 ammo in anything over 150 grains, though that shouldn't be an issue if the largest thing you hunt is a deer or pig.

I would stay away from a 30-30---it is generally not a good cartridge for extended range shooting (300 yards).

My suggestion would be a bolt action 30-06 (or .270). Maybe a remington 700, browning A-bolt, or weatherby vangaurd---all are reasonably priced and accurate out of the box. Bolt action rifles tend to shoot precisely, and give you the option of a quick follow-up shot. Get one with a synthetic stock (which will not warp in humid weather) and a stainless barrel (which resists corrosion better).

Spend your money on a good scope (like a Leopold, for instance), preferably adjustable to 10x magnification or more. This will give you more confidence at longer range and in low-light conditions.

Finally, buy 3 or 4 different types of ammo (different bullet weights and different brands). Go to the range, put a couple of "fouling" shots through the barrel, then shoot at least 2 five-shot groups with each ammo type. Let the barrel cool for at least 5 minutes between EVERY shot. Your rifle will probably shoot tighter groups with certain ammo loads. I would pick the ammo with the most precision (tightest grouping), and stick with it. 

I would sight the gun in for a bullseye at 100 yards. Then find the ballistics data on the internet for your ammo and memorize the amount of "drop" at 200 and 300 yards.

If you do all that, you will shoot with more precision and accuracy than the vast majority of hunters. Good luck!

I hunt with a 270 tikka t3 and it is a very good gun.  It a synthetic stock.  I thought the same thing you thought that a 270 wouldnt kick as bad as a 30-06 but my synthetic 270 kicks as bad as a wooden stock 30-06. I guess it has to do with the wieght. If you get a 270 which dont get me wrong i love my 270 but if you what it to kick less get a wooden stock.

Steve - Our Vanguards (we have 2) shoot about 1.25" with factory loads.  If we reloaded we'd be well under 1".

As far as sighting-in is concerned I would disagree with Bennett a little depending on what rifle you use.  The flatter-shooting the rifle the less problem I have with a 100 yard zero.  But, even with my 7mm Mag I still sight in at 200 yards.  That way I can essentially shoot dead-on out to 300 yards.  In the heat of the moment its always been hard for me to estimate range, because for a longer shot you don't always time to set-up and get a rangefinder on your target, then try to estimate your drop.

With a .308 and I'd even say a .30-06 I would use the 200 yard zero.  At least you're good to that range with a dead-on hold.

The Savage Model 10 rifle you mentioned is a fine choice of rifle.  The caliber 270 is also a fine caliber.  You will not go wrong with this combination as it is more than capable of effectively killing any of the species you mentioned (if you choose the correct ammunition and do your part). There is no such thing as a one gun solution to all the hunting and shooting you may do, but the .270 is not bad at most.  As a range gun, it's not considered a hard recoiling rifle, but every individual shooter reacts to the effects of recoil differently.  You would be wise to shoot someones .270 and some other calibers before you commit to buying.  I don't mean shoot one or two rounds.

I own a Model 10 that I chose to buy in .308.  I also have a Marlin lever gun in .30-30.  The vast majority of my hunting is relatively close-in (to 150yds.) and the Marlin has never let me down or embarrassed me. However, my selection of bullets got me into trouble.  I used 170 gr. flat points on some coyotes and was not proud of the results.  For game of that size, at the 60 yard range I was shooting them, even with well-placed lung shots, the bullets were too heavy- they blew through the animals and left them to dance around and bleed out.  On my next trip, I had 100 gr. Speer "plinkers" and killed every coyote I shot immediately.  Lesson:  It's not just the rifle or the shot placement that does the job.

My .308 Model 10 is a shockingly accurate rifle.  With 168 gr. Combined Technologies hollow points and either RL-15 or Varget powder, it shoots .625" one hundred yard groups (from a bench) all day long. Savage is building some excellent guns.

A .308w would be my choice.  You can find ammo (or load your own) with anything from 95 gr to 220 gr bullets.  One of those should satisfy just about any animal you wish to hunt.  My son has a 1943 Spanish Mauser that has been rebarrelled in this caliber.  He has not had a single animal run more than 20-25 yards after getting hit by a 150 gr bullet.  The majority of them are DRT for a dirt nap.

My primary rifle is a savage model 110 in .270.  Once I broke the barrel in, it consitantly shoots 1 moa. with 140 grain winchester accubonds.  I too have it zeroed at 200 yards.  never had one run far.  On the other hand, my dad shoots 30-06, which is very effective as well.  the 30-30 has probably killed more deer in the history of the united states than any other caliber.  .308...well, it has been the US army sniper round for ever.  7mm mag, one of my buddies shoots this one, and he has brought home some great deer.  You can't go wrong with any of the above mentioned calibers.

I do have one friend that hunts with a 300 win mag.  He blows the s*** out of them, and always wastes too much meat.

That's my 2 cents...plus the 25 sent Obama tax :)

As most everyone has said, the 270 is a great gun. I shoot the 7mm mag for 2 reasons. It has very good range and knock down power, and it is a great gun for all of the above and I can use it for mule deer and/or elk if need be. The very best advice anyone can give you is to consider what you will be hunting and the type of gun YOU will be comfortable with. Then practice with it often. Any gun you choose will only be as good as you can shoot it.

Well, I ended up buying a Marlin 336 in 30-30.  Although it really wasn't on my original list, I've always wanted a lever action rifle and Dick's Sporting Goods was having a good sale ($330 with scope), so I couldn't resist it.  I ended up looking through the 3 rifles they had left in stock and picked the nicest of them.   I know some of the other calibers mentioned in this post have better ballistics, but LeverEvolution makes the 30-30 a nice choice too. 

I guess if I find myself needed something the has more range and more power, I can always buy another rifle.  :)

If you're going to be shooting very far (200 yds out) you need to spend $330 on the scope alone. 

Yea, the scope that came with it I pretty much consider worthless, but the package deal was still better that I could find the rifle alone anywhere else. I will probably add a Leupold on it to help out my aging vision.

I tried looking for used, but people were asking too much for rifles that were too rough, so new turned out to be the better option. I've had bad luck buying used anyway. Seems there's always a reason for selling and it's rarely what they tell you.

Tom in Austin - good luck.  We need all the hunters we can recruit.  I was just talking to a couple of old-timer ranchers on Saturday who both said that none of their children hunt.  And they have family ranches where they can hunt for free!  The 30-30 is a fine choice - I have one.  My comment about spending $330 on the scope was a bit sarcastic but I just wanted to warn you that a 30-30 with a gimmee scope isn't a 300 yard rifle.  I personally have never used the 30-30 for more than 100 yards but the comments about the LeverEvolution ammo is interesting - please note that he also mentions using a good qualith BDC scope.  Personally, I'm a Leupold man but the quality of scopes has gone way up in the last decade.

Tom,

A friend of mine has a .30-30, and they're very good rifles inside 150 yards IF you've practiced with them.  i sure wouldn't shoot further than that, even with the LeverRevolution rounds.

And, I'm with Mike...I've owned Leupolds for almost 30 years because they're a very good, rugged scope for the money as well as being USA-made.  A 3X9 should be plenty.

One more thing...if you can get 'see-through' mounts where you can use both iron sights and your scope a lot of people seem to like that combination with a .30-30. 

Having to spend $330 on a scope is a lot of hogwash.  There are a number of "fine" to "outstanding" scopes out there for around $200.

I agree that a 3-9x is a good range for many shooters, but in my own case- due to 56 year old eyes and coresponding problems- I'm using a 4-16x and suffering the attendant field-of-view reduction.

As to the see-through mounts, I don't care for them simply because they raise the focal plane too far above the bore of the rifle.  As a consequence, this alters the ballistic properties of a projectile.

However, with that thought in mind, working with (target shooting) your particular combination of ammo, rifle and scope enough that you become intimately familiar with its properties will soon become second nature.  The key being that it will apply to that particular combination.

Incidentally, a few seasons ago, I killed a cull buck at 28 yards with my Marlin 336 using that 4-16x and a 170 gr. flat point.  He laid over like slow motion and never moved again.

But I had compensated for the close range using the knowledge that my bullet would be on the rising side of the ballistic curve at that range.

I agree that the problems with see through sight can be problematic, and frankly I don't care for them either.  But, many folks want that flexibility.  And, in brush where a lot of folks use a .30-30, higher magnification scopes can be just as big a nuisance.  Besides, scoped military rifles are often set with higher offset than sporting bolt actions with very good results.  Remember, we're not talking about shooting 500 yards here.

Knowing your rifle is always a great idea.  Make sure you shoot a variable distances - 50, 100, and 150 yards (or at whatever maximum distance you allow yourself to shoot) so you know where your rifle actually shoots

When it comes to scopes I've got to disagree with Mark though.  Its been my experience that you get what you pay for.  And, Leupolds are a rugged, dependable scope.  After some rather unpleasant experiences with others I 'pennied-up' and have never regretted it.

Well, the scope discussion is academic now.  I bought a Leupold Rifleman scope.  I haven't mounted it yet and am still trying to decide on the ring height and whether to go with see-thur or not.  I'd like to get to the range first and insure the iron sights are on target before putting the scope on so that if I ever need to remove the scope in the field (assuming no see-thru rings), I will have some confident that the iron sight will work.

sounds like you have a great combination and like the idea about the sights.

"I'm looking at buying my first rifle for use on deer, and occasional varmints including hogs and coyotes.  While most rifles are available in 30-06 and that cartridge would work for all of the above, I am reluctant to go that large.  I'm thinking of 270 as a softer shooting cartridge that would be effective on all of the above animals.  My secondary criteria is that the cartridge be well established and not overly priced, since this will also be the rifle I will most often shoot at the range.   I will only be hunting once or twice a year, so most of my shooting will be at the range.

I really don't know rifles all that well, so please correct me if any of the above assumptions are wrong.  Does this seam reasonable or will 270 be inadequate.

For rifles,  I'm looking primarily at Savage model 11 and Marlin XL7.   Based on reviews, these 2 seem like good rifles at somewhat reasonable prices."

to be honest with you, the 270 win kicks about the same as the 30.06. same case length smaller diamater. tho i have no problems with either, both are excellent cals. i personally use a savage model 110(pre-accutrigger)with a 28" barrel chambered for the 7mm rem mag. also another excellent round, if you are affraid/or dont like much recoil, i would aswell suggest a light cal. as in a 30-30 win, .308 win 243win/6mm rem. .257 roberts, 250 savage. those i listed are great deer/varmit rounds and aslo do well on hogs.

I use a 7mm STW which provides a flat trajectory up to about 300 yards.  I have taken deer from 50 feet to 240 yards with it and it shoots true every time.  It is a little heavy to tote if you are walking around while hunting. Since I hunt in a stand, there is no weight issue for me.  I stumbled upon the gun while shopping for a new rifle 8 or 9 years ago.  I got a Leopold (sp?) 6X20 for it and I have never missed or used more than 1 shot per deer (not my skill...the rifle and scope).  Even with such a powerful bullet the recoil is not excessive.  You might want to do some research on it.

I have read that after 300 yards the bullet falls fairly quickly so if you have longer shots you might want to research that specific point.  240 yards has been my longest shot.  Good luck.

heck. ive taken long. i mean long shots with my 7mm rem mag. both with factory loads(150 grain Remington corlokt) , and my handloads(150gr nosler balistic tip/ 63.0grs of imr 4831) both are nothing special, but, i have taken shots upto the 1000yd mark. maybe longer, may be less, hard to accuratly say with out it ranged propperly, but in my judgement, the longest shot i have taken was at a Blaze orange constuction sign in the mountains of oregon,( where i grew up) it measured 4x4 and we put it out far enough we could not see it very well where it looked like .5''x.5'' and i cranked off four shots of each load, and i hit the target just above dead center to the right, and around dead center(approx) with the handloads. all with various positions. my grandfather and i estimated about 1000 yds, but like i said, thats with out a range finder.

Hi Tom:

I just finished mounting a Nikon# 6469 4.5 - 14 x 40 SF (Side Focus) MILDOT Reticle on my trusty .30-30 Glenfield 30A. (My eyes aren't what they used to be... LOL).

Most of my shots should be in the 100-120 yard range so I will sight it in at 100 yards.

Using the information from the Hornady web site on the LeverEvolution Ammo (160 grain projectile), Hornady states that when sighted in at 200 yards, the projectile's flight path is 3"high at 100 yards.  With that information and the rilfe sighted in at 100 yards, I know the projectile will drop 3" at the 200 yard mark.  Once I get a handle on the MILDOT reticle by understanding the math involved (and being able to do it mentally), a 200-250-300 yard shot should not be a problem.

I am confident in the LeverEvolution ammo in .30-30 to drop whitetail or axis deer out to 300 yards as long as I do my part and get the boiler room shot,

Hornady's data states that, at 300 yards, the 160 grain projectile from a 24" barrel .30-30 is still smoking along at 1699 FPS and still has 1025 Ft/Lbs of energy.

Although my Glenfield 30A has a 20" barrell, data suggests that I will lose approximately 25 FPS for every inch less than the 24" test barrell.  So, with a 20" barrell, the projectile should be traveling about 1600 FPS with very little loss of energy.

And, for those of you who don't know (yet), Hornady has just come out with a 140 grain monoflex tip projectile for the .30-30 Wnchester.  I probably already have a lifetime supply of the 160 grain ammo, so I won't be trying the 140 grain bullet.

Here's the link to the Hornady LeverEvolution .30-30 ammo:

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-Win/

There is still plenty of feral hogs on the ground - let's get busy showing them who;s boss!

 (I am not affiliated with Hornady in any way except as a very satisfied user of their product)